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 removing the radiator
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Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2011 :  23:57:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still had the left head pipe part in the shop so I thought I should check its part number. It is indeed the 100-200-00-18 item. A check with Tom is in order.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
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abl567

Australia
930 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  00:05:33  Show Profile  Visit abl567's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In the mean time I checked with my local dealer and 100 200 00 18 is $338.37 while 100 200 13 52 returned a price of $1467 Aussie dollars, something is amiss, I have emailed Tom

300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go...
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styria

Australia
231 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  03:22:10  Show Profile  Visit styria's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not only does it make your eyes water but also it will make your hair stand up - that's if you've got any left after these various parts exercises. Somewhere, sometime, somehow along the line it is just so easy to get, shall we say, ripped off. I know the problem is with the parent Company in Germany-it's just money, money, money and inctreases not in accordance with the level of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP for the lazy of word individuals) percentages. In Oz country, try $1K. for a front window regulator - and that DOES NOT include the motor - I suspect that could be another $600.00 - it's about two years since I priced one.

Very, very disappointing and just plain bad. Regards Styria

"My Gleaming Beauty"
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Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  03:56:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'll stick my neck out again, but 100 200 13 52 is the angled pipe at the FRONT of the right head, not the small pipe at the BACK. Have a look at the picture I posted of the new one on the previous page. The one at the rear of the 981 right head is 100 010 02 76. The two versions on the 980 motor are 100 010 00 76 and 100 010 01 76 (unless they have changed the part numbers. That pipe is not shown or listed in the EPC page for Group 20 that Ant posted, but in Group 01 with the heads, hence the part number.
Art

P.S. The CORRECT prices for these pipes are not unreasonable considering that they have been reproduced and are specific to a motor which is over 40 years old and originally produced in quite small numbers, particularly compared to most USA motors. The fact that the original car manufacturer even bothers to have them reproduced after 40 years and supports their remanufacture, storage, inventory and distribution is amazing. There are thousands and thousands of these parts that are still available - I never whinge if I can still get them. As Michael says, some prices seem excessive, but if you look at the logistics involved, overall we do pretty well. Generally, Australian prices are double or more the US prices, so it cannot just be a parent company issue. Whinge enough or buy from alternate sources and you cannot complain if the factory stops providing the support and tells us to whistle.

Edited by - Art Love on 05/03/2011 04:11:26
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abl567

Australia
930 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  04:16:42  Show Profile  Visit abl567's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is starting to make sense now, and I suspect Art's comment re the additional 5 on the end of the $1655 price is correct or the decimal point has jumped a place. Chris do you have a part number for the elbow at the back of the right head as Art has proven the number Tom quoted on is the more complex part on the inside front of the right head? SEE EDIT

Art I missed your edit providing the part number I asked Chris for so will ask Tom for a price and suspect I will be pleased.

Styria I agree the local prices can be a high, that is why I buy from Tom. I also agree fully with Art regarding availabilty and the Classic Centre's service, for a long time we couldn't buy from Tom then it was opened up by "the company" Maybe their way of supporting the classic car lovers?

300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go...

Edited by - abl567 on 05/03/2011 04:43:41
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Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  04:23:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ant,
I was putting a PS on my posting while you were posting. I believe that the part number I have given you will be correct 100 010 02 76. If it has upgraded, Tom will know anyway. He has been away, so he will have a pile of e.mails to go through, so don't hold your breath.

Any word on the Lode Star?
Art
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abl567

Australia
930 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  04:47:31  Show Profile  Visit abl567's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Gotta love cross posts

I posted the Lodestar last Friday and have had feedback from VIC members that have received theirs so you should receive yours soon, hope you like it

300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go...
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ilpatino

Belgium
339 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  05:07:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

well, replacing the pipes is not planned for the moment. Although they could (and probably will be) corroded, I will clean the area's where the rubber hoses go over the pipes, but the initial plan is and was to replace the rubber hoses. There are a few there that I don't trust anymore, and because I'm going to a classic meet on sunday, I also won't have enough time come saturday to do all the work in one go. So I'm going to remove the radiator and replace as much rubber as possible.

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
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Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  08:00:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Gunter,
If you are going to a classic meet on Sunday, could I be impertinent enough to suggest that you postpone the radiator removal planned for Saturday (if I under stood you correctly). This could become a can of worms that destroys your Sunday plans.
With every good intention,
Art
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Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  10:09:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ant, the part number that Art provided for the pipe at the back of the right head on a 6.3 is correct: 100 010 02 76.

Gunter, I second Art's recommendation that you not do this project yet if you need the car on Sunday. The likelyhood that the water pump manifold and various water pipes will be significantly corroded is very high, as is the likelyhood that you will have problems removing the screws for either one of the water pipes between the heads.

I have a couple of other comments on this subject. First, I strongly encourage you to use only Mercedes hose for this project. Original Mercedes hose is so vastly superior to the auto parts store hose that it isn't even funny. Regular hose from an auto parts store should be considered criminal in comparison. Mercedes hose routinely lasts 40 years whereas auto parts store hose might be considered reliable for 3, assuming the engine never runs overly hot.

Second, dependability in the plumbing components on these cars is critical. These are the very parts that cause more M-100 6.3 engine damage than any other parts. It is my opinion that these particular parts should be considered mandatory inspection and repair items on the list of things that should be done on any new acquisition. I have a pile of these pipes that are corroded beyond repair, and Neil (Star Motors) has told me how many he has in a box too. If there is a weak spot in these engines, it is the coolant pipes. In reality, they can't really be considered "weak" considering how long they do last and the conditions most have to exist in, but 40 years is a long time and most all of them that are still original are in very bad shape.

This also means that the anti-freeze used in the system is important. I firmly believe in the benefits of the Mercedes branded anti-corrosion/antifreeze product. Yes, it is more expensive than the traditional green stuff but it is far superior in its anti-corrosion properties, and that is what we need. If somebody just can't bring themselves to step up to the Mercedes product, at least they should religiously change the coolant every two years. Leaving the anti-freeze in the engine too long allows it to become acidic at which point it starts doing more damage than good in the engine.

I have a client's 600 in the shop right now for an engine rebuild, and it became necessary because it severely overheated. Why did it overheat? You guessed it: one of the water pipes had a catastrophic failure resulting in a rapid dump of coolant. The really sad part is that this engine was gone through only six years ago by another man. He elected to try to save the pipes by brazing them rather than fix them properly (I'll see if I can get some pictures of those pipes for posting).

It doesn't really matter how much it might have cost to fix them properly at the time, he has to buy new pipes now plus pay for the engine rebuild. The engine rebuild is going to cost much more than ten times the total of the new prices of the various pipes.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
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ilpatino

Belgium
339 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  18:14:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

this evening, while there was still daylight, I took #1452 for a quick drive and eyed up the various components of the cooling-system. Although one cannot see from the inside how bad corrosion is, what worries me the most is the rubber connecting-hoses. Especially the larger one emanating from the thermostat-housing is seriously bloated. The various ones adjacent on the smaller pipes are also to be replaced.
Now, I'm planning on running it quite gently (what with a girlfriend and two young boys coming along) to Antwerp, so I will take Art's advice and for now postpone the removal of the radiator.
If one of the rubber hoses springs a leak come sunday, you can answer to my girlfriend

I'll try to take pictures and maybe shoot a bit of film of the event, and will report back

Gunter

w109 6.3 #1452 '69
s124 300 TDT '90
Skoda Superb '09
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abl567

Australia
930 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  19:02:19  Show Profile  Visit abl567's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mystery solved, Art you were right, Tom added an extra 5, the correct price is $165 and Tom is getting me a price on 100 010 02 76

300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go...
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Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  20:52:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's good news Anthony. I suppose you are now scheduling some work on the car?

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
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abl567

Australia
930 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2011 :  21:03:25  Show Profile  Visit abl567's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I had taken the heads off to cure a oil leak at the back of the left head and replace valve guides and seals, now to put it all back together

300SEL
6.3 #2723, my first classic Benz
3.5 #8659, my second.
2 to go...
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olliw109

Germany
385 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2011 :  08:22:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Gunter,
honestly what worried ME most was what I saw when I had the metal pipes/lines off. They -like always- corrode from the inside to the outside....the structure is often fragile when the cars stood for some whiles (like mine).
Only option for me was to make new ones and hot-dip galvanize them afterwards. That should be alright for the next hundred years.
At least the old one could serve as samples!!!

300 SEL 6.3 3478+5327
Oliver
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