M-100 Message Board
M-100 Message Board
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 M-100 Message Forum
 6.3
 My 1971 300SEL 6.3
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 16

EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  17:19:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Big Thanks to All of You for your help.
Your advices were very helpfull and I removed radiator without breaking anything.



How to remove a cooling fan?






Removing a water pump: I have last two bolts to go, any advice?






More pictures











Go to Top of Page

Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  22:38:47  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Loosen the 4 10 mm bolts on the rear of the fan clutch and remove three of them. the fan will lift off the last one. There clutch has a locating spigot into the hub (or vice versa) so you need to loosen the 4th bolt far enough to clear it.

Loosen the hose clamps before you go much further with water pump. Old rusted clamps will often not come undone and it's easier to loosen them first,using the engine as a vice of sorts.
Once you have the fan off,the pulley comes off and you can reach the last bolts.





When loosening bolts that run through alloy into steel,clear the socket head first with something sharp. then use a socket head (allen) socket with an extention on it. Hit the end of the extention with a few sharp blows to loosen the bolts and then unscrew the bolt.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
Go to Top of Page

Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2011 :  01:52:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those 4 short bolts at the back of the fan are a bit tedious to get out. There is not much room and you have to turn them one bit at a time. When you store the fan, store it vertically like it sits in the car because the viscous couplings don't like being left lying flat.

I think I am correct in saying that you will need to turn the crank- shaft to get the last 2 Allen key bolts out to release the lower "arms" of the water pump - the 2 inner bolts. There is a cutout in the edge of the main pulley that gives you access to those two bolts, otherwise you can't get a socket onto them. You need to rotate the crank pulley till the cutout is opposite each bolt.

You really should get all those belts out the road and, as Ron already said, release everything from the water pump while it is still bolted on including the thermostat housing and all the hoses. I'd screw some of those bolts back in and do that once the fan is out the road.
Art
Go to Top of Page

EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2011 :  19:28:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cooling fan is out.
I had time to clean the front of the engine. It was covered in old built up oil and dirt. Does it mean that something leaks?









While I have access to the front of the engine what else should I rebuild/replace?
Go to Top of Page

Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2011 :  23:17:54  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
good question,Answer?;replace anything made of rubber . I am betting that the pump will need rebuilding too. Dont trust a water pump tht is 40 years old and has been sitting for a while.If The alternator mount bolt has bush,replace this and it wouldn't hurt to clean the alternator because they are susceptible to oil dripping on them and fouling the slip rings.

Your engine looks pretty clean actually . Mine had dirt almost 1" think all over it. replacing the crank seal is a good idea but removing the pulley is Not and easy job.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
Go to Top of Page

Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2011 :  23:41:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can see the cut out in the balancer that I was talking about that gives you access to those 2 water pump bolts. Best seen at 12 o'clock in the last picture. Those look like the original automatic transmission hoses, the rebuildable type. The problem you will have in the USA is getting the correct size and type of metric hose to reuse the end fittings. The same applies to the oil feed line to the air compressor. If you are in contact with Neil Dubey, ask him about those hoses as he may have a source. The only advantage of buying full replacement ATF hoses is that I believe the new ones supplied have a steel protective coil around them to stop them chafing on the front sway bar like yours have done over the years.

Remove the water pump WITH the underlying jacket, don't try to remove the pump from the jacket leaving the latter on the engine. Send the whole unit - pump and jacket - to be rebuilt.

Loosen the idler pulley to get it and the aircon belts out of your road. I agree with Ron that it is sensible to have the alternator "rebuilt" while you can easilly get to it. They are generally cheap to have done. There is a bit of a trick to undoing the adjustor on the alternator that I can never remember. One of the mechanics on the Forum should help you with that. If you try to turn the wrong thing, it will break.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 06/17/2011 23:48:44
Go to Top of Page

Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2011 :  11:59:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The water manifold (aka water pump base) is almost always badly corroded after all these years and, as stated above, I would remove it with the water pump and then remove the water pump from it.

There are a total of ten bolts that hold the water manifold to the front of the engine and, as Art indicates, a couple of these can only be accessed by turning the recess in the vibration damper so that it aligns with these bolts. Seven of these bolts are hex socket heads (Allen head) and , as Ron states, these must always have the head cleaned out before inserting the tool and trying to loosen them. Not doing so risks having the tool bit not seat fully in the head and can strip out the head during loosening. This must be done on any of the hex socket head screws anywhere on the car.

It's not an easy chore, but you should seriously consider replacing the front crankshaft seal once you are into things this far. Along with total resealing of the water manifold, the opportunity for insidious oil leaks at the front of the engine is virtually eliminated. Other oil leaks in this vicinity are easy to fix in comparison.

You should also consider replacing the motor mounts at this time as well since it will never be easier than it is right now. On the other hand, they ain't cheap so you might wait if there are a substantial number of other chores that need to be attended to that would soak up lots of cash since the bad motor mounts won't prevent getting the car on the road.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
Go to Top of Page

EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2011 :  23:17:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would like to replace the crank seal. Is the seal still available for purchase? Can someone help me with part#.
Eugene
Go to Top of Page

Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2011 :  03:13:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The number I have is 004 997 21 46, but if you tell Tom that you want a front crankshaft seal for your 6.3, he will know.

If you are going to do that job, then you will need a big hex socket to go on the large nut inside the front pully (I think it is 45mm off the top of my head - measure it) and either an impact wrench (air or electric) or a very long arm, such as a length of water pipe, to fit over the end of your socket wrench. The tightening torque on that nut is 40kpm, 4-20 times greater than any other nut or bolt on the car.

There are also a couple of other critical points in reattaching the damper and pulley that Chris or Ron can cover. If you are going to do that, then removing the pulley and damper will give you access to all the water pump bolts.
Art
Go to Top of Page

mpmorris

USA
1359 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2011 :  11:13:59  Show Profile  Visit mpmorris's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Big note of caution here.

Using a puller to remove front crank hub is pretty straight forward, but reinstalling it with or without special install tool 100 589 03 59 00 is a whole different matter. The hub/pulley has two alignment dowels and must align perfectly. This is an almost impossible task if you plan on using the crank bolt and washer(s)to pull the hub back in place as the hub will stay using a locator drift per instructions, but the crank can turn preventing accurate alignment. A bearing should be incorporated into this process, avoiding the the excessive friction that will cause miss-alignment.

mpm
Go to Top of Page

Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2011 :  12:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Eugene,

This is a link to another topic covering the front seal:

http://www.m-100.cc/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4817&SearchTerms=Crankshaft,seal

The crankshaft nut is 50mm. A 2" socket will work being just slightly larger. The pulley assembly is a slight interference fit on the nose of the crankshaft and is no fun to reinstall so think about how you would go about accomplishing this.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
Go to Top of Page

EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2011 :  23:11:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I removed water pump. I am planning to send it to Star Motors.









I bought a 2-inch socket, a breaker bar and internal puller. The puller looks like one Chris described in another post. Looking at its picture, I see that I need to remove bolts which holds pulley and balancer together.
Can someone please tell me step by step how to remove pulley assembly. Do I need to remove pulley first and then balancer?
Also I came across a topic 'Re-installing crankshaft pulley on 6.3' where Chris and Ron discused a special tool(Installer for crankshaft pulley) 100 589 03 59 00. As far as I understand, this tool is essential to do this job right. Can I buy/borrow it from someone?
Eugene
Go to Top of Page

Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2011 :  13:00:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Eugene,

Clean out the bolt holes in the pulley and have a look to see how deep the holes are. There may be enough threads to install the puller without having to remove any of the bolts that hold the damper to the pulley.

However, removing a few of the bolts isn't difficult with the engine in its current state. Viewing the engine from in front of the car, the bolts can be accessed from the left side, between the damper and the engine. As each bolt is loosened, the engine is turned 120 degrees to allow access to the next (the puller will screw into every other bolt hole).

Your car is late enough that it probably has the larger bolts in the damper. These will be 10mm rather than 8mm and will probably also be the special small head type. The bolts are fairly long and it will probably not be possible to completely unscrew and remove them while the damper/pulley is still fully installed, however, they will unscrew several turns and make plenty of room to screw in the puller's bolts from the front. This also means that you need to have all the damper bolts partially installed when you reinstall the damper/pulley assembly, fully tightening them after the assembly is fully reinstalled.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
Go to Top of Page

Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2011 :  19:11:23  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Although pulley and balancer are bolted together,they come off as one unit.
Because the oil seal housing also comes off, take the time to check the oil pump chain. There is a small tensioner on that chain but although they often look worn out,they never wear much at all and were made that way , with a worn looking appearance .

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
Go to Top of Page

EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2011 :  21:50:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to All for replies,
Iíve tried to remove bolts in the back of the damper. These are large bolts. 14mm wrench was too small and 15mm one was too loose. I decided to buy and use external puller.
Mean while, I disassembled compressor. On pictures, all parts are before cleaning.









Question, to loosen crankshaft large nut do I rotate the nut clockwise or counter clockwise?
Eugene
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 16 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
M-100 Message Board © 2002-2015 International M-100 Group, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.28 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06