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 My 1971 300SEL 6.3
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  20:02:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to All for replies.

I am keeping the car and would like to fix rockers and everything else on both sides.
What points can I use to secure the car before I start working on them?
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  23:25:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another reason they rust at the front is because M-B ran the heater drain hose into the cavity behind the wheelhouse rear cover plate, so when the drain holes between the front fender and the sill/rocker block, the cavity fills with water. It also fills with leaves and mouse residue as you showed. The drain hose is seen in the 5th picture of the ones I last posted and its bracket in a couple of the later ones. I think I can see it behind the vacuum reservoir in one of your pictures as well. So, make sure when you put it back together that the two drain spaces between the fender and rocker are recreated and clear.
Art
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  23:36:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, missed your question. Here at the front.





At the rear, you can use the front ends of the trailing arms with timber between the jack stand and the car, the rear of the rockers at the jacking points if they are sound or the area between the two if you brace it with timber.
Art
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2011 :  03:50:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Got it.
I like the pic, so nice and clean.
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StianLode

Norway
44 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  02:55:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You probarbly know this already but ensure the rubber bushing (item 138 in the picture) is OK before lifting to high. If these let go the engine will drop down some and break things.


Edited by - StianLode on 05/26/2011 02:56:27
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2011 :  13:38:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to All for replies.

I removed front fenders and cleaned all areas with pressure washer. I tried to wash rockers from inside by sticking washer hose inside holes. A lot of little stones and dirt came out.






No rust on fenders. Guards were original and properly installed.



















A list of metal was welded over the rocker.










Jack hole is fully fabricated, someone welded two pipes together. I would like to replace it with original part.







I looked inside driver's rocker through the rust hole with flashligh, it looks good practically no rust.
There are holes in front of rear wheels.
I need a knowledgeable welder in NY tristate aria.





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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2011 :  18:42:21  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thats not too bad as it happens. A bit depressing at first sometimes but at least the majority of the rockers are good. The front panels are not the correct ones and although someone has done a reasonable job of patching there,you should consider removing the patches because both front jack points will need replacing. The classic Center has them . When you are looking for a welder ensure that you look for someone familiar with spot and plug welding and get them to replicate the factory look for the welds.
Also,dont replace the whole length unless your welder ( when you find them ) has a chassis bench to keep the car straight when the rocker is removed. These are very flexible cars compared with later mercs and it's not hard to change the cars shape slightly ,but enough to alter door gaps etc.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2011 :  02:48:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art,
What are the part# for those plates? I need them for both side.
Is jack point one part or more then one together?
Thanks, Eugene.

quote:
Originally posted by Art Love

Mike, I thought the same thing which is why I asked about the vent window - as if the car had been left out in the weather on a road camber tilted to the right with the vent window leaking. It doesn't look anything like as bad rear of about the middle of the driver's door.

I said this morning I would expand on what I said when I had more time. The seam I am referring to is the seam between the two plates that make up the front end plate of the rocker (sill for the antipodians and poms). It is completely missing on that left side.
Here are the 2 plates.





I'm holding them together in the next 3 pictures. On the car they are welded together and to the open front ends of the inner and outer sills.













So when they are on the car they look like this.









Here is the right side of another car with road grime, but again you can see that seam like you can on the right side of Eugene's car. You can also see the notch in the bottom edge of the mudflap (rear wheel housing)plate both on my car and on the flap on the left on Eugene's car which fits around the seam when it is there.





You can see the jack hole in a couple of my views and in this view to illustrate what Paul is referring to.





So there are clearly some problems in the front of that left sill which have been partly repaired in the past by replacing the front plates and putting in a malted milk container. I'm not sure how far you want to take this, but if you want to fix it properly and keep the car, you need help from a sensible panel beater who is competent in drilling and replacing spot welds. I would recomment that you have him remove the outer sill panel at the front on the left so you can see inside, like this.









That gives you access to the jacking point, the bottom of the A pillar, the malted milk container and the rusted away piece of inner sill and any other gremlins. Then you can put it all back together again, knowing that it is all done properly. To do it properly, you really need to take the left front fender off, or at least release it away from the front of the sill. The repair ends up looking something like this.





You don't have to go this far





You can buy those two end plates from Tom Hanson as well as an outer sill if necessary. Don't buy the W109 outer sill, it is about $600 plus, buy a W108 sill for less than half the price, you only need the front part. The rusted inner sill can be folded from sheet metal as Paul from the UK showed. It really depends what you want to do with the car as to how far you go.

I hope this is helpful, and if you want advice on how to remove the front fender without having to repaint it, ask. Obviously, that sill garnish mould will need to come off as well. Be careful doing that, they are NLA new.
Art

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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2011 :  03:24:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eugene,
The left front inner plate is 110 611 03 40.
The right front inner plate is 110 611 04 40.
The front jacking plates are 111 610 80 52.
The rear jacking plates are 111 610 81 52.
The left front outer plate is 108 637 01 36.
The right front outer plate is 108 637 02 36.

As I said earlier, to replace the outer sill(rocker) panel, order one for a W108. Tom Hanson at the Classic Center Irvine CA can supply both the W108 and the longer W109 outer panel, but the price of the longer W109 panel is not justified if you just need to replace part of the panel. Even if you need to replace the full length, it is a lot cheaper to use the W108 panel and weld in a good section of your existing panel to lengthen it because , if my memory is correct, the W108 panel is $200 plus and the W109 panel is $600 plus. I don't have the W108 outer sill panel number. If you are a financial member of this Group or the MB Club of North America, if you buy the parts through Tom, you get a club discount which will pretty much cover the shipping. By chance, the guys at Justin's had #4426 out in the beautiful early winter sun today to strip it for primer and I took a lot of photos, a number with you in mind. Here are the ones of the repaired sills of this car. You will see that Peter Verberg who has done the panel work for Justin has inserted a 4 inch section of the original outer sill into the W108 panels that Justin got from Tom.





































































I hope these detailed shots are helpful in your project.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 06/04/2011 03:27:10
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2011 :  04:32:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eugene,
If you look a bit down on page 4 of the thread on #4426, there are some photos taken at Perter Verberg's shed showing the sills partly assembled. I won't post them again here.
Art
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2011 :  01:50:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art,
Thanks for pics.
I sent a request for parts to Tom.
While waiting for parts, I am cleaning inside and the bottom of the car.
Pics will follow.
Eugene
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2011 :  00:53:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pjtigger

The R/H inner sill/rocker is still available from Mercedes but when i enquired 6 mths ago the L/H was NLA - so i ended up making one for somebody





The pressed section was saved from a car we'd scrapped & was let into the new sill



As you mentioned before, left inner rocker is NLA. Can you make one for me?
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2011 :  01:32:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eugene,
Without in any way interfering with any arrangement you may wish to make with Paul in the UK, I would suggest that you should not have to replace the whole of that left inner sill. Based on the photos you supplied on the previous page, the inner sill (and possibly the outer sill) from the cross member under the front seats back is sound and does not need to be replaced. Replacing the inner sills is a major undertaking and has significant risks of body distortion unless you have the sort of jig setup that Paul has to hold the remaining body absolutely straight and square.

I would suggest that you initially just remove the left front section of the outer sill back to beyond the obvious rust in the inner sill, short of the B pillar and have a good look at what it reveals. Even then, with that amount of rust in the inner sill, you will need to carefully support the left side of the car, perhaps by bracing the driver's door entry, to stop distortion of the frame. You need an experienced panel beater to help you with this.

The other option that occurs to me now is to leave the outer sill intact initially and get the severely rusted inner sill cut away to good metal and the missing section folded and replaced, and then remove the front part of the outer sill. At least that way, you have the outer sill supporting the feft front door frame while the inner sill is done, and then an intact inner sill doing the same job while the outer sill and jacking point are replaced.

I'd be interested to hear what Paul has to say about your problem. He is the expert. If you like, I can also show Peter Verberg who has done both my 6.3's as well as Justin's your pictures and see what he suggests.

On the bright side, things are not as bad as this




Art
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2011 :  15:09:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Eugene

I'd agree with Art in that repairing what youve got rather that replacing the entire sill/rocker is a prefered solution , i've replaced the inner's on two 6.3's now (we get a lot of rust in the UK ) & they are a right pain to do. The big problem is that when Mercedes built the cars they worked from the centre out . The inner sills were attached to the floor pan & then door posts/outer sills were attached as one unit to the floor so when you try to fit the sills the posts (front , middle & rear) which extend to the bottom of the sill are in the way. Also the rear half of the floor (fron the central crossmember)and the rear crossmember go under the sill so you cannot push the sill up vertically.

The big problem with making a complete sill the the pressing in the centre (where the beam unber the front seats attaches). I was fortunate in that we scrapped a car about 6mths ago & saved these pressings , these were then let into the new panel.

If you can just replace the last foot at each end then the repair panel would be much simpler (its basicaly just a "U" with flanges) the hardest part is reproducing the two bends which are a very soft bend (something like a 1/2 inch radius) rather than a sharp bend that a folder would produce.

Also going back to one of Arts previous posts buy the 108 outer sill & extend it rather than buying the 109 part , we made the mistake of buying the 109 parts at vast expense - all Mercedes do is take two 108 sills & weld then together (the part has one weld in it & not a band & two welds) The 109 outers we got were 5mm differnt in length between the left & right so i still ended up cutting one & rewelding it

Paul
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 06/07/2011 :  22:06:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to All for replies,
Your pics and advises are great help!
I am ordering the following parts from Tom:
110-611-03-40 left rocker panel forward end cap $28.50
110-611-04-40 right rocker panel forward end cap $29.50
110-610-00-52 left forward jack supports $102.00
I don't know if those prices are before or after 15% discount.

Sometimes ago, I read on the Forum about bringing up car without starting an engine. Someone used a tire compressor.
How can I do that? Any cleaning(reservoir) prior to that?
Eugene
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