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 6.3
 My 1971 300SEL 6.3
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2011 :  16:01:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art

Thanks for reply.
It's not missing, I removed fuel pump cover for cleaning.
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2011 :  21:42:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello All,
I ordered Rust Bullet coating and in the process of preparing the floor.



Any advice how to handle this spot?



How to apply the coating to inside frame panels?



Should I remove all original insulation down to metal before applying new coating?


















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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2011 :  00:11:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That section of inner door sill (rocker) needs to be cut back to good metal and replaced if you are planning to keep the car. That means that you will have to strip back anything flammable in the vicinity which includes the rubber sill mat, the door front edge windlace and any bituminous sound deadener such as on the adjacent kick panel. Does the quarter (vent) window leak?

I don't see any reason to strip the covering off the tunnel, the foot panels or under and behind the rear seat. I don't know the product you plan to use, but, in general, if applying new bituminous sheets to the floor, I would advise removal of all the existing bituminous material. In the pictures, it doesn't look like you have a rust problem in the vicinity of the cross member under the front seats, so it does not need to come out and can be left as is. The rockers don't have anything but paint usually, with the carpet glued to the painted surface.

If you are asking about coating the inside of the rocker cavities, I would advise the use of Wurth cavity wax which is designed to creep into seams. The factory was using it on cars in the 1980's and 90's, I don't know about currently. To apply it, or a similar product, you need holes in the inner rocker panel which you plug with factory plugs after spraying the product via the holes.

That is all I can think of at the moment.
Art
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2011 :  07:47:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art,
Thank you for reply.
I would like to test vent window for leak but not sure what it is. What is a vent window?
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2011 :  18:25:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It's the triangular shaped window that swivels at the front of the main window in the front door. We call them quarter windows in the antipodes. Tom Hanson calls them vent windows, so I presumed that was the American term. I was trying to work out in my mind why your car would have such severe rust in the inner sill panel and very little elsewhere. The woodwork at the left end of the dash looks in good condition which it would not be if the front window seal was leaking at the bottom corner(a common problem) and the location of the rust is further back than I would expect from a leak there or from the heater air chamber, so the most likely source of water inside the car to cause that much rust is the quarter window. You can buy new seals from Tom Hanson and I have covered the process of replacing the seals recently in the thread on my green 300SE Finnie which I think is called "Art's other 300SEL" in the General Discussion Forum. The W109 window is very similar but with a different rotating unit and only one screw at the top, not two.
Art

P.S. Testing is easy. Close the window and the door and hose the thing from the outside. If water does not appear on the inside, maybe someone stored the car out in the weather at some time with the window partly open.

Edited by - Art Love on 05/16/2011 18:29:34
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2011 :  18:42:26  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote

This is a common spot for rust . It's serious as it happens. I would strip the steel back under car at the front of the rockers . They will be rusty. the outer part of the rocker panel needs to be removed at the front and the lower part of the "A" pillar needs to be inspected for rust. The jack point will need replacing and it looks like someone has placed something in there ( cardboard?).
I replaced the Left Front "A" pillar im my 6.3 because it had rusted 8" up into the car. It took months ...
In this case you can either buy the new panels($$$$) or get them made ($$) or cut the peices required from a donor car .Any W108 without rust will have the parts you need.
On my W111 Coupe that area was full of old number plates.


quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - Ron B on 05/16/2011 18:43:31
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2011 :  22:27:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I keep staring at that thing inside the sill, trying to work out what it is. I thought you may have put something in there to highlight the rust hole in the picture. Regardless, it shouldn't be there as Ron said. I've seen newspaper, putty, fibreglass, bodgy sheet metal, but nothing quite like that. Looks like an old fashioned malted milk container. Despite what Ron said, some of the new panels are not that expensive and cheaper than having them folded. Can you take a few pictures of the outer sill (rocker) at the front on that left side including the jack hole area and the front end of it and post them.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 05/16/2011 22:31:06
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2011 :  15:17:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The R/H inner sill/rocker is still available from Mercedes but when i enquired 6 mths ago the L/H was NLA - so i ended up making one for somebody





The pressed section was saved from a car we'd scrapped & was let into the new sill
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EugeneGroysman

USA
120 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2011 :  17:12:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mice made a home inside the car: headliner and backseat had the most damage. When I removed backseat I found a dead mouse. Due to violent content I desided not to post the pic:)









This is what I found after scraching the surface. Looks like a layer of epoxy and coating.



Inside, pieces of backseat cushion.










The other side of the car










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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2011 :  18:39:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The seam is missing off the front plate on the left. It is just visible on the right. That is an indication that the area has been previously messed with. Otherwise it doesn't look too bad in the pictures. Run a magnet over the area on both sides. It will give you an idea of how much good metal is there. That malted milk container should not be there and will be hiding something. I'll try to post some pictures later in the day when I have more time to show you what I am talking about. I would suggest that you strip all the extranious material off the front ends of those rockers till you have just bare metal. You will be prepping and rust coating them in your project anyway, so it is time well spent.
Art
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2011 :  18:48:14  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I hope your "lift" is secure. These are heavy cars and you dont want it coming down on you. A squashed should be the only death incurred.









quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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paul-NL

Netherlands
4296 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2011 :  22:36:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Re-inforcement for the jackpoints ????



When I see those pictures of those jackpoints, then the need complete restauration, because the angle does not fit the originals and are to far outwards ......
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mtrei

USA
3740 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2011 :  23:38:13  Show Profile  Visit mtrei's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's unusual how that rust appears to be much worse on the left side. On LHD cars it's usually the right side that suffers most.

If you're replacing the inner and outer rockers, try to keep at least a little of the original parts around the B pillar. If you cut away everything, keeping the door openings aligned perfectly can be tricky.
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  02:39:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike, I thought the same thing which is why I asked about the vent window - as if the car had been left out in the weather on a road camber tilted to the right with the vent window leaking. It doesn't look anything like as bad rear of about the middle of the driver's door.

I said this morning I would expand on what I said when I had more time. The seam I am referring to is the seam between the two plates that make up the front end plate of the rocker (sill for the antipodians and poms). It is completely missing on that left side.
Here are the 2 plates.





I'm holding them together in the next 3 pictures. On the car they are welded together and to the open front ends of the inner and outer sills.













So when they are on the car they look like this.









Here is the right side of another car with road grime, but again you can see that seam like you can on the right side of Eugene's car. You can also see the notch in the bottom edge of the mudflap (rear wheel housing)plate both on my car and on the flap on the left on Eugene's car which fits around the seam when it is there.





You can see the jack hole in a couple of my views and in this view to illustrate what Paul is referring to.





So there are clearly some problems in the front of that left sill which have been partly repaired in the past by replacing the front plates and putting in a malted milk container. I'm not sure how far you want to take this, but if you want to fix it properly and keep the car, you need help from a sensible panel beater who is competent in drilling and replacing spot welds. I would recomment that you have him remove the outer sill panel at the front on the left so you can see inside, like this.









That gives you access to the jacking point, the bottom of the A pillar, the malted milk container and the rusted away piece of inner sill and any other gremlins. Then you can put it all back together again, knowing that it is all done properly. To do it properly, you really need to take the left front fender off, or at least release it away from the front of the sill. The repair ends up looking something like this.





You don't have to go this far





You can buy those two end plates from Tom Hanson as well as an outer sill if necessary. Don't buy the W109 outer sill, it is about $600 plus, buy a W108 sill for less than half the price, you only need the front part. The rusted inner sill can be folded from sheet metal as Paul from the UK showed. It really depends what you want to do with the car as to how far you go.

I hope this is helpful, and if you want advice on how to remove the front fender without having to repaint it, ask. Obviously, that sill garnish mould will need to come off as well. Be careful doing that, they are NLA new.
Art
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  18:12:10  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Under any Finny ,W108 or W109 that is the first place I look. If the seam is still there ,all will be OK. No seam means rust . Most of the problems were caused by the stones being thrown up and hitting the panel and chipping the pvc coating . Water then gets in and holes are rusted into the end panel. Because the insides of the sills were not painted very well from new, the water eats the front of the sill section . The reason not too much rust occurs further back is because the water runs out the jack point . The Jack points are generally rusted out . I haven't lifted a Merc on the jack points for years...especially other peoples cars in case the jack point folds up because of hidden rust.
The other end will be rusted too so check inside the rear wheel house by poking the PVC coating. It's not a lost cause though because it's all repairable .
I generally make my own panels for the repairs .


quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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