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 Working on air valves
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Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2010 :  23:01:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Kai,

Ditto on everything Art said. Definitely do all three, but know in advance that this is an all-day sort of project (even if it doesn't take all day, you won't want to do anything afterwards).

At last check, all three lines plus shipping from the Classic Center was less than $100 (US).

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
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Kai McRae

Australia
390 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2010 :  23:21:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys. I have emailed Tom.

My front end is always a little lower. I wonder if this leaking hose is to blame?

If I'm dismantling this area to get at the hoses, it's probably a good time to replace the susp. compressor oil feed line too i guess. A job i've been putting off...

Art, should that hose be A0059972582?

1971 6.3 - #5417 -
(LPG)
1982 230E - W123 (M102)
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Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2010 :  06:05:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Kai,

That is the number for the oil line according to my parts book. You would also be wise to replace the seals at each end of the 3 hoses while you are at it. 112 997 04 40 x 6. The fittings on the hose at the ends take a 17mm spanner and the end fitting does NOT rotate on the hose. The 12mm fitting on the pipe does rotate. You need to undo the pipe ends while holding the hose ends. Fortunately, the design of the hose bracket locks the hose end into the fitting when it is pushed right in, so you only need a short 12mm spanner to start and finish because there is no room for a 17mm, then hopefully the rest with your fingers. You may be able to speed the undoing process by cutting the old hose in half and spinning the cut hose once it is loose enough to clear the bracket locking mechanism at each end. On the 600 and the 3L cars, you can speed the installation by spinning the hose on its longitudinal axis until it locks in the fitting with the 12 mm pipe fitting held steady, then the other end of the hose at the valve end has a pipe fitting that is easier to get to.

On the 6.3, both ends of the hose are fixed, so you can only rotate the hose on its longitudinal axis at one end. Once that end is fixed, you have to use the pipe fitting at the other end the whole way to do it up, so hopefully you will be able to do a lot of it with your fingers. Otherwise, it is very tedious rotating the nut a section at a time with a spanner which you can't turn much.

So, decide while you are dismanting which end is easier to get to and do the more difficult end first when installing the new hose. It is too long since I did it on the 6.3 to remember which is worse. Someone else may know. If you can get access to a couple of 12 mm spanners with angled ends, that should help as well. Of course, have the left front wheel off and the front of the car up safely on stands with the subframe hanging down at the left side. Have a look at the nice picture in Paul Jermy's pjtigger "the rebuild begins" 6.3 thread for a nice image of the chassis end fittings.

Good luck,
Art
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Art Love

Australia
6226 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2010 :  07:24:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For input from me on this topic as it pertains to 600's, go to the 600 Forum and look under the thread called "600 detailed views". I was considering posting it here as well, but I am having so much trouble accessing the M-100 website that it is too time consuming to duplicate it. I don't know if it is the site, Google or my computer, but repeated drop outs with "Oops" messages from Google saying that they can't contact the website when I am in the middle of posting or reading, and having to do things over and over again, make it not worth the time and trouble. Sorry about that.
Art
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FEMA

USA
1386 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2013 :  23:10:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art, Chris, and all: As I am planning to do this job on my 6.3 this winter I want to ask about removing the subframe as Art alluded to in order to make this job easier. I'm not exactly sure what this means but if there's a good reason to do it - like another job I could address with this out of the way while assisting in the valve replacement, should I do it

I believe all 3 valves need replacing as the car now sinks over time in both front(that's been a while) and now the rear. So, getting them all done makes sense to me.

Though the tranny may need a rebuild this summer I don't really want to remove the engine as I was planning to have my mechanic pull the trans.

I'll be reading this over in detail and looking up Chris's article as well before beginning anything.

PS - I still do not have a lift so I'll be on my back, side, and any other part needed

Francis E. Abate
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Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2013 :  06:04:19  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have done this a few dozen times. It's easy and a great opportunity to sort out any hassles with the front axle.
You need some basic gear;
1/ an engine support bar to hold the engine up
2/ a good trolley jack.
3/ a pair of heavy duty jack stands with a decent base .

engine support bar.You can get them through harbour fright in the US.

Once you have the engine secured, lift the car up so you have at least 2 1/2 feet under the axle of clear room.
Pull the front wheels off.
Next job is to undo the four bolts and the large center bolts on the chassis support bush each side.
You can support the axle in the center with the trolley jack but it takes two to lower and lift back, so what I did was make a simple jig which fits into the jack. It holds both lower control arms and has a little arm that secures the axle via the cross stay bracket.
When the weight is secured on the jig, I undo the two leaf springs in the front.
I normally undo the entire steering box ,undo the hoses,and the coupler and remove the three bolts so it's hanging down and still connected to the steering arms.
The Idler on the passenger side is undone next.
If i am dropping the axle I chop the brake hoses off. It's pointless to reuse old ones.
Shocks are undone next. Both top and bottom bolts are removed and the shocks taken right off.
The sway is in the way on 6.3's so again I chop the bolts off. New bolts come as a kit with the new bushes.
Just be careful of the two trans cooler lines. Check the condition of the hoses and replace them if the rubber is looking cracked.
Lower the axle slightly and then you can see the three hoses that feed the valves . Again if they look skanky, just cut em off.
Finally ,you can now see the engine mounts ,undo the bolt on top of each one.
Lower the axle right down and pull it out the front of the car. it will look like hell in a coat of black grease .
Now is the time to strip the arms and check all the moving parts ,loose bolts, worn rubber parts etc etc .
It takes me around 4 hours to do this .
I go over the steering box and fit new hoses and a coupler then fit the box before anything else because it is a real bugger to get up while everything is in place.
Check the chassis rail where the steering box is bolted ,for cracks.
With the axle stripped down ,it has to measured to make sure it hasn't bent but I will bet money that it is. Quite a common problem on 6.3's but if you look around you should be able to find a front axle from a W111 which you can use as replacement.
Finally,it is so much easier to the bags and valves when the axle is on the floor and you can see everything.





quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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MHenderson

Australia
210 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2013 :  04:14:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just for posterity, when we look back at 2013.....

Does anyone dare put a ballpark price on just the 'comsaumable' parts (no labour) that Mercmad just described for front end only....rubbers,lines,hoses,airbags ????

300 SEL 6.3 # 2462
300 SEL 6.3 # 0953
300 SEL 2.8 # 1404

Elegant Brutality
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Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2013 :  05:00:17  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
A few grand....but once done and now everything is new it will last another 40-60 years so you need not worry about doing it again.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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FEMA

USA
1386 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2013 :  13:17:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ron, so this is easy eh

It's going to take me a bit of time to study this to see I fully understand before tackling the problem this way. I've already done the air bags, that was 2 years ago so now just the valves.

Measuring the axle for having been bent? Don't understand this comment.

2 1/2 feet off the ground - I may be able to get close but my large jackstands and floor jack (I don't think) extend that far, more like 20 inches perhaps.

Now that engine jig you show in the picture, where is the weight of the engine sitting - looks like inside of the fenders but that be

Francis E. Abate
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Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2013 :  19:51:21  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The engine support bean can sit on each side of the chassis in a 6.3 above the axle mount bushes.
Mercedes actually had a tool for this purpose .
The axles bend in the middle because of the weight of the engine ,over time. They are nearly all bent . They are measured between the upper control arm mounting points from side to side. There was also a surface plate for dealers to sit an axle on to measure other bend points or twisting,but for our purposes,the side to side measurement is the important one.
Believe me, it is easier to drop the axle ,go over it and sort any problems than it is to crawl around under a car and fight with air valve brackets and pipes etc etc .



quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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FEMA

USA
1386 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2013 :  22:02:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ron, I'll gladly try this way but I may be calling on you for some step by step guidance I'm assuming the manual will be of some help to me in describing the job, yes? Any other recommended resources to help guide me in this job?

The front sub frame bushes were replaced when I bought the car several years ago now so obviously mechanics do this all the time - I'm anxious to try it really

Francis E. Abate
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Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2013 :  16:52:50  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have tried uploading the relevant pages [Section 33-0-9 ] but our server isn't up to speed yet, i think , I keep getting a 505 error message.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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FEMA

USA
1386 Posts

Posted - 01/28/2013 :  17:03:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ron, you could email this to me at fabate63@yahoo.com.


Francis E. Abate
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Hages

79 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  18:30:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Francis,

Harbor Freight also sells high lift farm jacks that will lift up to 48" with 3.5 ton capacity! Jack stands can be elevated if you use solid pieces of wood.

I might also be crazy enough to consider dropping my subframe.

Rod

quote:
Originally posted by Ron B

The engine support bean can sit on each side of the chassis in a 6.3 above the axle mount bushes.
Mercedes actually had a tool for this purpose .
The axles bend in the middle because of the weight of the engine ,over time. They are nearly all bent . They are measured between the upper control arm mounting points from side to side. There was also a surface plate for dealers to sit an axle on to measure other bend points or twisting,but for our purposes,the side to side measurement is the important one.
Believe me, it is easier to drop the axle ,go over it and sort any problems than it is to crawl around under a car and fight with air valve brackets and pipes etc etc .



quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section




'68 6.3 #411
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benz_head

USA
449 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  05:37:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I bought a used engine hoist at a nearby re-sell-it shop for US $120. It was in perfect condition and works great. I could use it to hold the engine in place while the subframe is dropped.

benz_head
#1349
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