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 Working on air bellows
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2010 :  19:32:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art / Chris;

A couple of questions as I read through this an get ready:

1. Art - didn't Craig Tucker describe a method to us in Steamboat for removing the front bellows that was different than this, something about loosening the control arm or wheel so the wheels could actually swing up and away from the car? Just curious in the event this is an alternative to what you show or if my memory is totally wacked

2. Is this a good opportunity to replace the front subframe mounts? Mine were done when I bought the car but again thought this might be of interest if it's clearer to do this job with airtanks off.

Still digesting the rest while I order parts and prep

Francis E. Abate

Edited by - Art Love on 05/11/2010 18:04:35
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2010 :  21:54:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Francis,
I don't recall Craig talking about this. I wonder if he was talking about a 600 based on your description. I would not do this job with the wheels on regardless of model. It may be necessary to release the tierods at their outer ends to get the front units out. We managed without doing it on the 300SE. The geometry on the 6.3 is a bit different.

I can't see any benefit one way or the other in dealing with the subframe mounts at the same time unless it is your intention to take the whole front subframe out to do other work. If they were new when you bought the car, they probably don't need replacement and replacing them does not in any way that I can think of, assist the air bellows replacement job.

Others may disagree, but those are my thoughts.
Art
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Craig Tucker

Australia
654 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  00:44:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art, Francis and others,

A very quick and simple way to remove the Air chamber complete with bellows and leaving the piston on the lower A arm is to;

a) remove wheel from side of bellow to be replaced.
b) Undo Swaybar connecting rod (13mm) with an air wrench.
15 seconds and disconnect lower control rod from air valve.
C) Undo the inner four (4) mounting bolts (19mm) of the lower A arm
with a rattle gun. 30 seconds
d) swing lower A arm complete with piston, to the outer of car; pivoting on knuckle. (I use compressed air, shot up between the piston and the bellows to "free" the bellows from the piston)
e) remove chamber complete with bellow by undoing 3 13mm nuts and 1 air line. 2 minutes.

Of course, this is far easier on a hoist.

C.T.



1969 300SEL 6.3 (to be AMG 6.8 replica)
1971 300SEL 6.3
1993 300E-24
1959 220SE Ponton
1983 Schuler 5.0lt Range Rover

Edited by - Craig Tucker on 03/30/2010 00:45:32
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  03:25:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Craig,
That must have been what you told Francis in Colorado.
Art
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 03/30/2010 :  11:56:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes that was it, thanks Craig - guess withput a hoist I'll be using Arts method but will evaluate when I get the car up.

Good to have this kind of stuff

Francis E. Abate
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 04/07/2010 :  22:52:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art;

The washers you show on page 1 of this thread are labeled to be for the timing chain...is this a misprint on the package?

I've got my stuff on order with Tom and I asked for nuts, screws, and washers so expecting the same thing you showed here. I did not use the part number shown on the package in the event there's a mistake.

Francis E. Abate
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 04/08/2010 :  02:16:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, fancy that! I see what you mean. Maybe they use them in some car's timing chain, but they were invented for the 300SE air suspension, hence their part number.
Art
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  10:33:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This weekend I got the two rear (old) bags out, and in process of cleaning them up. Some questions I did not see answers for:

1. Art mentioned anti-seize for the fasteners as you put all back together; I'm a little confused where to use this VS locktite (if at all in this job) and so any guidance would be good for many of us I am sure.

2. O-rings; what size rings, and are they available from MB for the air-lines fittimg going into the units? This is for the MALE side...is there an O-ring on the FEMALE side of this fitting too, (where the flare fitting enters)

I'l start posting pictures and comments of my experience as I proceed.

Francis E. Abate
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  17:18:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Picture of the 3M antisieze can is on page 1 about a third down the page sat next to a pot of rubber grease. You put it on the threads of the bolts/screws. The O rings are available from Tom Hanson. I don't have time to post the part numbers just now but will do it later today.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 05/10/2010 17:18:52
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  18:51:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
O ring between the larger fitting on the rear tank and the tank itself 002 997 91 45. You need 2. Seal ring between the tank fitting and the cross air pipe between the two rear tanks 112 997 05 40. This is a square profile seal. You need 2.

O ring between the rear left tank and the air line from the front of the car 002 997 85 45. You need one at the rear and 2 at the front. Square profile seal ring between the air pipes and the tank fittings and everywhere else for the air lines 112 997 04 40. If you are just doing the tanks and bellows you need 1 at the rear and 2 at the front, but if you are doing the air valves as well or any other work on the airlines, you need more.

The O rings are cheap. The seal rings less so.
Art
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  22:51:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art

Maybe this is confusing because I have not got the fronts tanks off yet(and I am not doing the valves) but, your first paragraph I understand.

In the second paragraph, O ring between the rear left tank and the air line from the front of the car 002 997 85 45. You need one at the rear and 2 at the front There's no air line from the front to the rear left tank???

Next sentence, Square profile seal ring between the air pipes and the tank fittings and everywhere else for the air lines 112 997 04 40. If you are just doing the tanks and bellows you need 1 at the rear and 2 at the front I have yet to see a square area that would take a square shaped ring but what do I know

Here's another question, take the valves out of the equation: are we talking just the o-rings between the fitting and the tanks - male side? Or, are there some fittings that go in the female side of the fitting.

Sorry Art, I'm just not seeing this clearly and want to make sure I get it right as Tom only quoted me the 112-997-04-40 with no mention of the other PN's. I've asked him to clarify as well.

Francis E. Abate

Edited by - FEMA on 05/10/2010 22:54:22
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2010 :  00:33:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Francis,
I've confused you by saying "the line to the front of the car". It goes via the rear air valve. The left rear tank has two air line fittings and they are different sizes. All the air lines are the same diameter except the line that connects the two rear tanks, which is bigger. That is why you need two different sets of O rings and seals. The round O rings go between the fittings and the tanks. The Parts Manual confuses the issue by incorrectly identifying them back to front, hence my not referring to it. Here is where the round O rings go, both sizes of fittings.





Here is where the square profile seal rings go, both sizes of fitting.





Here is the left rear tank showing that it has two fittings. The larger one takes the cross pipe to the right rear tank, and the smaller one takes the line from the rear valve.





The round O ring between the larger fitting and the tank is 002 997 91 45. You need 2 of them because there are two rear tanks and the cross pipe goes between them.





If you want to replace the square profile seal rings that seal the end fittings of that cross pipe in the tank fittings (and it makes sense to do so while doing what you are doing), then you will need two x 112 997 05 40, one for each end.

For the second small fitting on the left rear tank, you need an O ring between the fitting and the tank 002 997 85 45 and if you want to replace the seal ring for the end of the pipe fitting, you need one 112 997 04 40. Here is the left rear tank installed showing the two fittings and the pipes attached.





When you get to the front tanks, they have the same size fittings as the smaller fitting on the left rear tank, so you will need another two of both the O ring 002 997 85 45 and the square profile seal 112 997 04 40. These are the same fittings, O rings and seals that are used everywhere else in the air suspension. For example, on all the air valves and the master valve. So having some spares is not a bad idea. You don't need spares of 002 997 91 45 and 112 997 05 40, because they are not used elsewhere and if you do them now in the rear tanks and cross pipe, you won't need to do them again in the forseeable future.

I hope this clarifies what I am saying.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 05/11/2010 18:05:15
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2010 :  11:43:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art

We are both a little blury eyed after that!

I think I've got it but just one more point to clarify, it looks like the round profile o-ring 002 997 91 45 is mistakenly refered to with 40 vs. 45 at the end of the PN early in your last response. Then later corrected to 45 which appears consistent with your previous response, so a 45 at the end refers to the round profile right?

Francis E. Abate
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Art Love

Australia
6238 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2010 :  18:03:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, a typo. I'm getting old and missed that when I checked it. I'll change it now.
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FEMA

USA
1392 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2010 :  09:46:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well after being lulled into a false sense of security with the ease of removing the rear bellows I received a good workout trying to free the piston on the front left...still not out but hopefully get them both today.

Two comments/questions:

1. I wonder if smacking the inside of the bag; the metal disk inside would help "lift" it off the piston.

2. Art - when Justin used the drift (which I have in brass) did he smack from the outside like the manual shows exerting pressure in the same place as the hammer handle on the outside of the piston?

3. I might try to sneak the whole thing out without removing the piston first but not sure I have the room past the steering arm (I've left it connected for now and turned the wheel to lock as Art suggested) - anyone have a clue?

Francis E. Abate
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