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 The rebuild starts !
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Kai McRae

Australia
390 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2010 :  21:27:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome to see.

Did you take the opportunity to reinforce steering box area?

1971 6.3 - #5417 -
(LPG)
1982 230E - W123 (M102)
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2010 :  15:36:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A few more new pics - just started to spray the base coat (180 Silver Grey) colour on the underside , engine bay & inside the car.




Next pics should be with the clear coat on

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mirafioriman

United Kingdom
193 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2010 :  17:19:39  Show Profile  Visit mirafioriman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looking good

I love this stage of the job

Mercedes W116 450 SEL 6.9, W109 300 SEL 6.3, W126 420 SEL, Fiat 131 Mirafiori (X4), Fiat 130 saloon, Fiat 132 1800ES, Fiat 132 2000, Fiat Argenta and a Mk1 Ford Escort!
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mirafioriman

United Kingdom
193 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2010 :  17:38:54  Show Profile  Visit mirafioriman's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just read the whole thread. I think I know who you are now

Fantastic work. There is another site I visit ( www.retrorides.proboards.com ) where someone has done similar standard work to you but made a lot of repair sections himself (it was on a Vauxhall Victor.)

Threads like this are great because they inspire you to try and improve the standard of your own work.

Mercedes W116 450 SEL 6.9, W109 300 SEL 6.3, W126 420 SEL, Fiat 131 Mirafiori (X4), Fiat 130 saloon, Fiat 132 1800ES, Fiat 132 2000, Fiat Argenta and a Mk1 Ford Escort!

Edited by - mirafioriman on 02/10/2010 17:39:39
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2010 :  17:52:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello mirafioriman i think the cars owner spoke to you sometime last year ??.

The good thing with Mercedes is that most of the panels are available (at a price) so you dont have to go to all the trouble of fabricating your own (been down that route with a Maserati)
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  04:49:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Paul,

As far as I know, the factory did not do body colour over the factory stone guard. The boot floor wasn't stone guarded where the tank goes, but that doesn't matter because you can't see it. The underside of the fuel tank wasn't either. Old cars frequently have overspray from repaints in these areas. The old bituminous stoneguard material that the factory used is, from a practical point of view, not available and the stuff you used is far superior anyway. It was only applied to the floors as far as I know. I don't believe they put stone guard on the sills either. When we did #1702, we didn't stone guard the tunnel beyond the automatic housing or the brackets for the rear axle, the front chassis rails or the boot floor. We did elect to do the sills and the underside of the tank to the seam line. We kept the irregular surface of the stone guard to a minimum in those areas. The whole underside including the inner guards (wheelhouses) with the exception of the front chassis rails is best done in the same paint as the boot to reproduce the original black appearance of the old stone guard and the rest of the underside. There are a whole series of articles including detailed photos that I did for the Lode Star in the "members only" section if you or the owner have access to that. Alternately, I can post some of the photos here if you want.
Art
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  07:08:50  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Art,It wasn't bitumous,I am Sure mercedes never used it. It was PVC. The equivalent today is bed liner for utes etc. Most of the cars were PVC undercoated over the steel which had a sort of primer/surfacer applied(Mercedes are still PVC coated today) then a grey primer was applied over that. The cars were painted all over in body colour and sometimes areas around the diff etc are missed and the grey is still visible . The PVC is a cream colour .
my 1675 was PVC coated on the sills from new. I removed most of it from the car and replaced because it had cracked with age and was letting water in. On the sills it only had the grey finish under the PVC .
The german built/delivered finny I have here at the moment also has PVC under it and on the sills from new . I am sure the finnys were the first with pontons having very small amounts applied above the diff and in the tans tunnel but no where else. Australian assembled pontons and finnys had nothing and were under sealed by dealers etc . Probably why they rusted out so badly.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  11:45:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Ron/Art

When i stripped the car the only bituminous stoneguard was covering repaired areas the rest was the white/cream PVC type Ron describes. This covered the front wheel housings , floors , transmission tunnel & outer sills. The rear end had been replaced/repairs so i've no idea how that was originally finished. Everywhere that was original on the underside of the car was in body colour (but barely more than a mist coat in places on up the transmission tunnel). One of the requirements of the owner was that the car must be useable all year round so to protect it from the UK's winters more underbody protection was used than was applied at the factory.

The car has also had be be sprayed in water based paint as this is all Glasurit will supply in the UK now.



The aim is to make the car as close as practical to the day it came out of the factory but it must also be useable all year and to take advantage of modern materials for corrosion protection etc.
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  16:50:02  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have been impressed with what I have read about dinitrol in UK. Will you be using that ?
I see the Germans are great fans of the stuff they call "Fat" which has to heated up to be sprayed into the sills boxes etc. Dads latest car (380SEC) was waxoyled from new in the UK and has no rust that I can find anywhere,whereas one i looked at on the weekend is so rusty that the rear window is falling out.....also ex UK.
What sort of spray system are you using to apply the water based paint?

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2010 :  17:16:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm going to use Wurth cavity wax for the box sections etc. I've heard about the Dinitrol products but never used them. The original waxoyle from the 70's was great stuff but over the years they have changed it & is doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good now. I normally warm the cans of cavity wax up 1st to make them more fluid so it runs into the seams rather than skining over them , with the car on a stand i can roll the shell over to help get the wax in all the seams. Hopefully with all this protection we'll get another 40 years out of the car

The paint is being sprayed with Devilbiss equipment , i'm not a fan of water based paint - it always seems to soft & marks easily but its all thats available now
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paul-NL

Netherlands
4298 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2010 :  14:33:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dinitrol is still available. It is a swedisch or denisch product, that does not harden out. Most products harden out after a while and then it break. In those breaks water will reach the metal and attacs the metal like before or unprotected metal.
Dinitrol is one of the better products for rustpreventing.

The german fellows are using
1: fluid film which is a kind of kreeping oil that cuts the complete metal of from the air / oxygen.
Because "fluid film" will be äfter some time washed of with water, it has to be renewed regulairy
So after a while they then use (instead of always renewing that fluid film)
2: Mike Sanders Fett, which also is used by the US-military for preserving (for years) their equipment during storing and also for aircrafts.
This Fett is thick and can be put on with a brush. Except for the hollow parts, where you can't reach with a brush.
Then they "boil" the fett(grease) to about 100 Degrees C and put in in an airpistol with a special head (like dinitrol does) and spray it in all hollow parts that have to be protected.

The benefit of this grease (Sanders Fett) is that it melts in the heat of the sun and then kreeps all over the metal again (like the kreepingoil) to close all rust again in so no oxygen can reach it.

I you can read german, see also this page:
http://www.sternschuppen.de/html/mif4.html

Edited by - paul-NL on 02/12/2010 18:10:09
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2010 :  17:15:11  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Paul,I remember now,It's called Mike Sanders.Dinitrol is sold here in Australia but only to the military and Mike Sanders products are unheard of. it would be great to use this stuff to give rust protection for the next 40 years...
http://mike.british-cars.de/

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section
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paul-NL

Netherlands
4298 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2010 :  18:41:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ron,

http://www.dinitrol.co.uk/

may be he would ship it over to you ....

For Mike Sanders you found the right website and they should also ship to you ..

On shipyards they commonly have also good wax/oils/coatings for preventing yachts for rust ....

Edited by - paul-NL on 02/12/2010 18:53:20
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2010 :  01:04:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm quite happy to stand corrected on the PVC/bituminous stuff. All I know is it is a pain to get off. But as the owner of 3 white 108's, a white 111 coupe, 2 white 109's, an ivory 112 coupe and a white 112 sedan, I've not seen any evidence that the underbody was painted white in any of them. I'm quite happy to accede that the PVC stoneguard was/is a grey colour rather than black. The modern stuff is as well. According to the 190SL Group guru, Bruce Adams, the primer used on the undercarriage of those cars (which were produced until February 1963) was coded 169. He said "It is purported that this colour was left over from the World War II occupation of Germany by the United States in 50-gallon cans and was put to good use by the rebuilding of the German factories." The paint chip example in the Group book is a rather military looking brownish grey.

Whether that primer still applied in the late 1960's is another matter. I am sure that the fuel tank was not body colour. I'm sure that the mud flaps behind the front wheels were not body colour. The ones I have seen look black. I'm quite happy to stand corrected that the underside was grey rather than black originally and just looks black with age and grime.

It's hard to find a factory picture of the underside of a 6.3, but here is part of one of a 220S Finnie on the production line. I've cropped it to less than 80Kb and it still hasn't reproduced very well. The car is either white or very light alternate colour and the white stops at the seam line on the wheel well and the sill. Compared with the rather glossy black rear axle components that I have cropped out to get the picture small enough, the underside is distinctly grey, but it is definitely not body colour.






This is the underside of the front of a test car. It's also a finnie but it appears to have been painted based on the colour of the turned under front guard at the bottom right corner. It clearly shows the shiny black mud flaps compared to the general grey underbody.






I'll keep looking. I hope I'm not being too pedantic and that this is helpful.
Art
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pjtigger

United Kingdom
153 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2010 :  03:36:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The information i have is that the underbody protection was a product called "Teroson Caoutchouc underside protection Antirombo 2021" but i have not been able to find out anything about this material.

I've just borrowed a copy of the German 6.3 sales leaflet - its got a side shot of the car & show's the rear wheelarches stone chipped & finished in body colour (sorry about the quality but my scanners not working & i had to take a pic of it )



I've tried to translate some of the text about the body work & it says they use 20Kg of paint on each car , 2 coats of primer , stone protection , base coat & top coat. It also says they use 14Kg of underbody protection that includes the wheel arches & some other bits i have not been able to translate yet.

In the leaflet (its 30- pages thick !) there's also i nice shot of a new 6.3 engine sitting in the factory waiting for a car - graeat for showing finishes on the engine



Edited by - pjtigger on 02/13/2010 15:45:59
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