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 K4B 050 Transmission
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 04/12/2009 :  23:30:38  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Warren ,the besy idea is too get a large 3/4 drive socket and cut it down to fit the ring nut in the flange. Punching the ring nut to release it soon causes more trouble than it's worth.
This is a lancia item but it's roughly what is needed.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/30/2017 12:51:11
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wbain

USA
213 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2009 :  14:07:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My front cover gasket was mangled. I'll post some pics soon.

I did get the whole assembly cleaned, the pipes to the cooler cleaned and polished. The front band looks good and I'll get to the others soon.

Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor
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aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2009 :  11:06:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, after the trip to Essen and some other issues that took my attention I will post the final pics of the disassembly of the gear set.
The first part of the set was pictured before in this thread. Now on to the second part.

Before that, one word of caution. Here is the second planetary set (on the right) and you can see that there is one planetary gear missing (at 4 o'clock). I have seen sets were the shafts were pinched on top, so they cannot fall out. This one did...





This is the result. It will be a pain in the .... to get that back in with the needle bearing parts...





Here is were we left off. On the left drum B2, then the bearing support and on the right drum B1.





Here we took B1 off, it is on the bottom right. You see sun gear S2 attached to B1. To the left you see the intermediate shaft, with an oil seal (the ring on the spline). You also see the bearing support with the radial bearing and the thrust bearing (both needle bearings).





Now the bearing support is removed from the rear part of the gear set.





The drum B2 has the same radial clips to keep it together like the front drum. The wire that secures the clip is thicker, and even nastier to get out. Some rebuilders leave this lock out when they put the set back together.





Another look at the nasty lock...






You just have to pry it out. I use a pick, like Sears sell in a set...





See how the pick gets abused. The steel wire is soft, so it is easy to bend...





Here the bottom of B2, with the output shaft and the ball bearing... Of course you need a good glass of California wine while you do this kind of work.





Output shaft with planetary gears and sun gear removed, here outer gear O3.





Here the output shaft, attached to the sun gear S3. The planetary gears are still on the sun gear.





Here the intermediate shaft, connected to outer gear O3 and the inside of clutch K2 (the large splined part in the middle).





Here a look at drum B2. You see the clutch plates, and the infamous one way (or free wheeling) clutch F. (Under the large circlip).





Here clutch pack K2.





Here what is left of drum B2. On the left you see the piston for clutch K2 and the one way clutch F in the middle on top.





These are the guts of one way clutch F. On the right the ring that goes inside the part in the middle. When we put this back together, we have to be sure that this part goes in the right way, otherwise there will be no reverse and no first gear...






1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/30/2017 19:29:02
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2009 :  18:26:06  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Is that a chunck gouged out of the lock Wire? I wonder when that happened? at the factory (unlikely) or when it was rebuilt in the past maybe. The bearing in the bottom picture is pretty sad...

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 20:43:12
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aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  08:01:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do think the gouge happened in the factory. This was a factory rebuilt transmission (Taushagregat).
The lock wire is made of very soft steel, and it comes in shaped in a circle. With pliers you bend a notch in it, and then you wurm it into the space between the main lock ring and the drum. You have to tap it into three recesses, and I am pretty sure that's how the gouging happened.

The part in the bottom picture is NOT a bearing, it if the frewheeling clutch F. What you are looking at are the wishbone shaped pieces, held together in a cage, and spring loaded to one direction. This creates the one way only effect when turned between two concentric rings.

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP
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aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  11:36:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here a few pics of the factory recommended procedure of installing the lock:


With pliers of the right width you bend the wire as follows:





Then bend the wire like this and stick the straight part in the slot of the drum. Then punch the wire ring with a screw driver into the three milled pockets... (a rather sloppy translation from German by me). So I am pretty sure the gouging you see in the pictures was caused this way.






1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/30/2017 19:33:17
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wbain

USA
213 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  13:26:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I took the K1 clutch apart today and the clutches are shot. So it will be a complete rebuild for mine. I'll get a link to a different thread on another forum, to keep this one 6.3 pure.

Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  17:37:07  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aplekker

I do think the gouge happened in the factory. This was a factory rebuilt transmission (Taushagregat).
The lock wire is made of very soft steel, and it comes in shaped in a circle. With pliers you bend a notch in it, and then you wurm it into the space between the main lock ring and the drum. You have to tap it into three recesses, and I am pretty sure that's how the gouging happened.

The part in the bottom picture is NOT a bearing, it if the frewheeling clutch F. What you are looking at are the wishbone shaped pieces, held together in a cage, and spring loaded to one direction. This creates the one way only effect when turned between two concentric rings.

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP


I realised that after I posted,but it looks like the rollers are worn in the picture or is that just reflected light?

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 20:44:25
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aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  17:43:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ron,

That might be the light or dirt. I haven't cleaned nor inspected anything yet.

This transmission is at first impression in decent shape, other than the govenor shaft, which you cannot turn by hand. There is defenitely something wrong there.

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP
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juan

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2009 :  09:01:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Then, venting valve K1 (27) is a completely different part from the picture, and spring 27a is missing."

"Finally, venting valve K2 (28) is also different, and spring 28a and washer 28c are missing. Now both parts 27 and 28 are the same shape, and these are both clutch venting valves. Did MB make a change??? Anyone has any idea???"

I wished i was in this forum a couple of months bak. I also found this differences when I did my gearbox. It sure gave me lots of head ache at that time! Box is working now.
I am impressed and relieved with this forum!

Hi
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juan

USA
106 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2009 :  15:50:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"We are thinking that the modulator valve and associated stem are not correct because the minimum pressure we get from the transmission is 2.6 bars of pressure, not the .6 to 1.4 as stated in the front of the
supplement 5 manual."

There are three measurements that must be done with the vacuum line DISCONNECTED assuming the solenoid is working in its three positions while depressing the accelerator pedal with shift at P :
1) At idle the pressure should be .6 to 1.4
2) Press the pedal to at or above 2000 r.p.m, the pressure should be about 2.9
3) Press the pedal again as in 2) but now also depress the kick down switch with the other hand or foot, pressure should be above 4.5

I all ok connect the vacuum again and test. If you forget the vac line you will get extremely hard and late shifts.

Juan
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6.3Nut

USA
205 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2009 :  09:54:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys need a little help:
a) I have accidentally filled the transmission fluid to the top marker on the dip stick when the engine was around 175F. Can you tell me the best way to take some fluid out.

b) I called up Benz to purchase ATF and they told me that they only have synthetic ATF and for such an old car they would either put Mobil or Castrol non-synthetic - Now, can you tell me that if I am going for a complete fluid change can I switch to MB or Mobil 1 Synthetics and if not then which fluid is recommend?

Thanks

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931
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wbrian63

USA
901 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2009 :  10:42:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not certain that a full indication at 175F is a bad thing, but if you must get some fluid out, I'd try a simple piece of rigid HDPE tubing (available at Home Depot) about 4 or 5 feet long. About 1/4 to 5/16" OD should be fine. Stuff it down the filler tube and suck some fluid up into the tube with mouth suction. Long tube keeps you along way from ingesting fluid. You shouldn't need to remove much.

As for fluid - even with a complete flush, I would not suggest any sort of synthetic fluid for a 6.3 transmission, unless the unit had been completely rebuilt. Putting synthetic fluids in where none used to be in older components is a quick trip to the leak farm. I'm not certain that synthetic fluids would be a good idea period in a 6.3 tranny.

I'll hazard a guess and suggest that plain-old Dexron II or Dexron III transmission fluid should work - a good brand name like Castrol is just fine. "Back in the day" there were only two types of transmission fluid - Dexron and Type-F. Type-F only went in Ford transmissions. The "rest of the world" used Dexron. Even my '92 W140 300SE 5-speed auto used Dexron.

W. Brian Fogarty

'02 S55 AMG (W220)
'92 300SE (W140) - sold
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #1164
'76 450SEL 6.9 Euro #521

"Bond reflected that good Americans were fine people, and most of them seemed to come from Texas..." Casino Royale, Chapter VII
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Chris Johnson

USA
3751 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2009 :  12:34:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The transmission should read full at full operating temp, so I'm not sure what the concern is (?).

Stay with a Dexron-Mercon III fluid. These days there are so many types of transmission fluid at the auto store that it may take some looking to find the right one.

Chris Johnson
If you aren't constantly impressed with your car, then it needs fixing.
100.012-12-000790
100.012-12-000867
www.300SE.org
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6.3Nut

USA
205 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2009 :  13:19:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chris and Brian:
Thank you very much for your inputs. The reason I have the concern with the fluid level is because the shop service manual says to keep the fluid level below the high level mark to give space to expansion if the temperature rises. And also, becuase the temp. when I put the fluid in was just 175F after driving about 4 miles so I am afraid when I take the car on a longer tirp the oil will rise higher.

Thanks

There cars and then there are BABIES!
1969 Euro Model
10901812000931
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