M-100 Message Board
M-100 Message Board
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 M-100 Message Forum
 6.3
 K4B 050 Transmission
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 10

flinfosys

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2009 :  14:40:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Albert,

We don't know each other, but I am having the same problem.

I can email you some photos showing what is in my transmission (72 6.3L K4B 050) for the venting valves K1 and K2 in the lower valve body. (I tried uploading them to this post but the M-100 server refused them) Please send me an email address so I can send the photos.

I have the same dumbbell-style venting valves for K1 and K2 with no springs. The outer finish on these parts is not high quality like the rest of the valves throughout the valve bodies.

I am contacting the MB classic center in Stuttgart on Monday regarding these parts to see if they are correct or not. Given what I'm hearing on this post, it seems at least five transmissions have this (both of mine do). I'll let you know what they say...

I also have a large (approx 1.5 cm diameter) round valve that fits in the lower valve body. It is flat on one side and has a short stem on the other side that is the downward facing side I think. I can't seem to find this part anywhere in the Supplement 5 manual I have. Any thoughts?

This valve seems to have some pressure behind it because it has left a soft wear mark on the underside of the oil distribution plate that fits between the lower and middle valve bodies.

You can get the bands relined, I'm trying to find out where, all I know is that there is a place in Alabama that does them. MB Classics in Germany will also do them but they will not ship them out of Germany, too many have been lost.

Best,

Alex


Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 18:22:02
Go to Top of Page

paul-NL

Netherlands
4261 Posts

Posted - 03/13/2009 :  15:02:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For uploading files, the limit is ca 150 KB. If bigger, resize it.

If stored elsewhere on a public server, there is no limit, but then you need to take the button for that (right from the button "insert Email").

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 18:20:36
Go to Top of Page

aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 03/14/2009 :  02:41:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Alex,

I am in Germany at the moment, so I cannot look at anything on the transmission. I am pretty sure that these venting valves are correct, since you also have them.
The 1.5 cm disk is also in my valve body. I think it is a one way valve to prevent the fluid from draining back into the pan when the engine is not running.

I have heard that the Classic Center in Stuttgart does not reline bands anymore because of lack of cores. Anyway, if you find out who can do it in the States, please let me know. I also have been looking into that.

What did you find in the clutch packs? See my previous posts for what I found. I did receive all the parts, so I will start the re assembly in the next week after I return to the USA.

Regards,
Albert

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus 570HP
Go to Top of Page

flinfosys

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2009 :  22:45:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Albert,

I too was just in Germany, the folks at MB Classics in Stuttgart said they could reline your bands if you supplied them, but they will not ship them anywhere outside Germany because of lost shipments.

I think you are right on the 1.5 cm disk although I'd love to see it in a manual.

I'll need to check what we found in the clutch packs, I think I had one more than specified...

Best,

Alex
Go to Top of Page

bwostosh

USA
485 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2009 :  23:14:30  Show Profile  Visit bwostosh's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is our local flame spray connection.
We can do anything with this technology.

http://flamesprayinc.com/

Just ask, no problem with any aspect of the technology
( provide specs, dimensions and a core )

Brian O.
Go to Top of Page

aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2009 :  14:00:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex,

Are you referring to this round valve? If so, it is in my drawing. See pics below and let me know.

Thanks,
Albert


Towards the top on the left:





The valve in question?





See this drawing. I think that valve (#29) is right there:






1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus 570HP

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/30/2017 11:45:25
Go to Top of Page

needamerc

Ireland
618 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2009 :  18:52:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Albert. I have commented elsewhere on how much I am enjoying this thread.
Unfortunately I have nothing useful to add, but PLEASE keep it going.
Eddie.
Go to Top of Page

Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2009 :  19:28:25  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
What is really importent is that Albert has taken the time to post this up. A lot forums spend more time backslapping(and stabbing) than actually helping each other out. This is valuable information and benefits us all whether or not we contribute.

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 18:26:21
Go to Top of Page

wbain

USA
213 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2009 :  09:48:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have found this very instructive. I plan on dissecting my 220Sb auto trans. Same style, different size.

Warren Bain '65 220S, '89 300SE, '89 420SEL, 2002 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor
Go to Top of Page

aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2009 :  12:34:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, guys...

I find these comments encouraging, and will keep posting. It does not take that much time, since I take dozens of pictures anyway. The biggest pain is uploading the pics to Photobucket, and insert the links in the post.

I am planning to start a thread on the re-assembly of the engine, the transmission and the differential. I also have to finish my examination of the wiring harness, which is 90% done.

It was just a little discouraging if no one posts a reply, while other threads get a dozen replies on something like a part number for a small clip, or something like that.

But I guess that people are interested, so I will keep it going.

Thanks again for the comments.

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP
Go to Top of Page

aplekker

USA
494 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2009 :  14:04:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here some more pics on the disassembly of the transmission. I just tried to high light the main steps.

Here a pic of how not to mount the fluid coupler. The damage to this seal was probably done when the coupler was installed, and this seal leaked from the beginning. (look at the dirt in the bell housing).






A pic from the bottom, after the valve body is removed. You will see the brake bands B1 (right) and B2 (left). B3 is hiding under in the front of the transmission housing (right side). On the bottom of the bands you see the reaction valves (MB calls them thrust bearings) with their fluid supply pipes. On top of the bands you see the piston pins that activate the brake bands. The pin in the middle is the connected to the modulating pressure transmitter, and sticks into the valve body. The metal part between the brake bands is the bearing housing (or support plate). The pipe on the upper part of the bearing housing supplies fluid to one the the clutches. In other transmissions there are two pipes, since there is a clutch K3.





The modulating pressure transducer (vacuum controlled) and piston housing B1 & B2.





The diaphragm and connecting rod of the pressure transducer.





You do not need the special tool that MB describes in their manual in order to remove the housing. I just replace 4 M7 bolts with longer ones, and nuts that hold the housing down. By releasing the nuts in sequence the housing comes off easy.





Housing removed, see the springs for the B1 & B2 pistons. On the far left the bolt that adjust the play of brake band B3. I had a very hard time removing that bolt, had to heat up the alu housing.





After removing the rear of the transmission, the first thing to come off is the gear that drives the governor and the aux oil pumps. In my case you CANNOT turn the governor by hand, there is a significant problem there.





Governor on the left, aux oil pumps on the right, drive gear in the middle. On the output shaft (gear removed) you see the parking pawl ring, with the parking pawl to its right.





The rod that operates the parking pawl. on the left you see the main output shaft bearing, with its snap ring to hold it in place. Under the snap ring the spacers to adjust clearance.





Here the snap ring with the adjusting washers.





After removing the front of the transmission (main pump) you will see this:
Here the top of brake band B3 (reverse), its piston does not operate it directly, but through a lever.





Here the other side of B3. No reaction valve, but the adjusting bolt that was so difficult to remove.





Next time the removal of the brake bands and gear assembly. Also the disassembly of the gear assembly.

1965 600 SWB #248
1968 6.3 #0347
1971 6.3 #5745 Euro
1979 6.9 #6857 Euro
1979 450SLC 5.0 EURO
1981 300SD
1989 560SEL
2003 CL600 Brabus T12 570HP

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/31/2017 16:27:01
Go to Top of Page

paul-NL

Netherlands
4261 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2009 :  15:09:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice done Albert,

Keep going and learn and teach us the functions and how it works.

Thanks for future postings.

Edited by - paul-NL on 03/19/2009 15:09:48
Go to Top of Page

Ron B

Australia
11612 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2009 :  17:41:05  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The damage to the seal is the result of someone installing the couple while it was horizontal. The couple must installed with the trans vertical,and removed like too. Check the conditon of the seal rings on the shaft and the bore to make sure there are no scratches. This is a common cause of trans/coupler leak down .

quote:
12-14-2004, 11:49 PM #8
Tom Hanson
MBCA Member

What the heck, try to stuff a MB 6.9 liter V8 in it. What a machine that would be..
__________________
Tom Hanson
Orange County Section

Edited by - paul-NL on 08/29/2017 18:46:55
Go to Top of Page

flinfosys

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2009 :  01:03:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Albert,

I have received an answer from both California and Stuttgart classic centers.

The parts manual from California shows a 600 valve body with a dumbbell shaped venting valves replacing the parts for the parts 27 and 28 etc in our manuals.

The parts manual from Stuttgart shows a valve body with the same parts that we do not have (ie springs etc)

The 600 parts manual also shows the 1.5 cm valve pointing down.

Hope this helps....

Best

Alex


Go to Top of Page

flinfosys

USA
11 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2009 :  01:15:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi again Albert,

The valve #29 in my valve body is much smaller and has a spring underneath it. The valve your photo shows has a spring underneath, mine does not have this spring....

I'll see if there was one, and if missing what to do about it.........
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 10 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
M-100 Message Board © 2002-2015 International M-100 Group, Inc. Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.38 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06