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 Justins 6.3 project with pictures..
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  05:06:39  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The never ending story of ther ex Rob Fulton 6.3 .





...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)

Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  05:11:00  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ahh,disregard the first pic...thats Roys LOVELY (not) TATRA.


Another dodgy cone by the looks of things.


Time for a new trans mount.


...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  05:14:10  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cracked fire wall with crappy welding from in the past.


Note the Crease in the tunnel close to the shifter hole.



...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)

Edited by - Ron B on 03/08/2008 05:19:13
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  05:17:17  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote




...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  06:26:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The picture at the bottom of this thread shows the crack in the firewall crossmember, just above the RHD hand brake wheel. It extends up into a factory 2cm machine hole on the top of the crossmember and then into a screw hole another couple of cm back toward the firewall at the top. Not entirely clear why it has occurred other than metal fatigue. Note also in this picture that the brake line pipe to the rear of the car and one of the airlines have been crushed flat by some sort of impact.

Ignoring the Tatra, in the pictures I sent Ron, Ist pic shows Justin's fancy engine lift device. 3rd one shows the bent rear brackets from the rear end impact driving the exhaust forward. 4th one shows that the car has had the right front chassis rail grafted from a blue car and even then, the chassis rail has been welded just in front of the subframe mount. When Peter Verburg had the car and measured it up on his repair frame, the right front chassis rail was about an inch shorter than the left. Note as a result the scrubbing of the front tyres from misalignment. The chassis number is hence missing from the right chassis rail.

1st picture in the third series of pics shows the rear of the right front chassis rail. You can see where the hand brake cable comes through the firewall. That should be a round hole. Someone has got stuck into it with a coal chisel, presumeably because the cable got stuck at some time in the past. You can again see that the grafted right front chassis rail was blue. There is a bit of rust under the brake booster, but not too bad. The steering box mounting points are OK. Next one shows the tunnel has taken a belting as has the back corner of the floor at the tunnel in the next one.

In the next series, on the bench you can see that the rear end impact snapped one of the arms off the tail shaft flex disc mounting bracket and the auto mount is toast. The left front air suspension cone is actually worse than the right, you just can't see the rust hole right through it because the airbag is clinging to the cone. The subframe mounts are stuffed as are the front lower A arm buffers.

Nothing impossible, we'll replace the damaged fuel and airlines from my stock, take the front and rear axles off and rebuild them, repair the body work, have the propellor shaft repaired, get the air valves repaired, paint it, new mounts and rubbers, new interior and put it all back together and it will live again. September is the deadline. Wish us luck.
Art



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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/08/2008 :  07:02:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's something else I just noticed. I am going through the Parts Manual to order parts and started with the engine mounts. In the workshop today, I noticed that the automatic transmission support bracket that Justin had on the bench all cleaned up was different from what I was used to with my 6.3's. The rubber buffers had a 116 part number. I presumed that the later 6.3's may have had a different version. In fact, according to my parts manual, the rear engine support bracket on #5810 is off a late 2.8L or 3.5L car. The rear engine mount on the bench in the pictures I sent Ron and he posted is for a 3.5, not a 6.3. Does anyone know if the later 6.3's used the later 109 016 and 109 056 bracket and rear mount or is my Parts Manual correct?
Art
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2008 :  04:39:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
More progress today on #5810. Justin has removed the steering and front axle. I arrived late after spending the day retrieving parts from the 6.3 donor for #765 and took these pictures.

I really would appreciate (and so would Justin) some feedback on the use on this car of the rear engine mount and support bracket from a 109 016 or 109 056 late series car. Has anyone seen this, done it or know if any 6.3's had this setup? Does anyone know if it upsets the balance of the driveshaft?
Art






Here's the top part of the crack in the firewall crossmember




Front axle and steering off



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mtrei

USA
3740 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2008 :  11:05:27  Show Profile  Visit mtrei's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OMG, that makes mine look like a minor refresh!

Edited by - mtrei on 03/09/2008 11:05:49
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2008 :  17:33:10  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It was also very "interesting" to drive at speed ( 120mph).

...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/09/2008 :  17:38:32  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just realised that was indeed the wrong mount. Someone has obviously fitted a 3.5 mount and crossmember to save a few dollars in the past .I am sure that mount will not be sufficient to support the 6.3 and trans unless you install a 6.9 rear rubber mount.
The 6.3'as have a larger finny shaped mount normally.

...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/15/2008 :  00:48:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Things are progressing. Here are some more shots from the ones I took today. and a couple of comparison shots from last week.





This is the shot of the right front chassis rail I took a week ago. Turns out the blue is undercoat and the rail is probably original, certainly was on the car when it crashed and required repairs. The only sign of trouble is the weld line across the lower face in front of the subframe mount.






Here's what it ended up as. Justin is holding the piece of sheet metal that had been tack welded onto the inside of the chassis rail where you see the dark colour. It covered the front of the two retainer nut holes and the rear one was bogged up. There was water between the two layers of steel.






Here's the rear of the right floor where the exhaust hit it when it was rear ended.






Here's the repair.






This last one is to show an important point. It shows where the right inner guard (wheelhouse) has been repaired and rewelded to the front end of the chassis rail and the replaced front cross member after the front end accident some time in the past. Whoever did the repair failed to appreciate the importance of that finger shaped outpocketing in the wheelhouse sheetmetal and welded the open hole at the bottom of it closed at the chassis rail. This is a very important drain hole. Water otherwise accumulates on the top of the front end of the chassis rail under the air cleaner and will rust the front of the chassis rail out. The same thing applies on the other side. The crappy welding of the front end of the chassis rail to the front crossmember has already been cut out by Justin's panel man. I took more pictures. If anyone is interested, say so and I can post them.
Art

Edited by - Art Love on 03/15/2008 00:52:37
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Rob_Fulton

Australia
82 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2008 :  06:06:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Keep them coming Art.

I bought this car off Ronny, and I doubt he knew how molested this car had been underneath.
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Dan Smith

USA
1623 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2008 :  09:47:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Art, Rob says it well; keep them coming. I find your photos of great interest. What are your plans for the rust protection of the under side after all is complete? Exterior paint and how much? On this point I have heard two different theories. 1) that only a paint shot is sprayed while wheels are mounted. 2) the whole thing is exterior color coated. I have seen evidence that #2 is correct.
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2008 :  16:54:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dan,
These days, the whole body shell gets dipped in a phosphoric acid solution by the production line "belt" dipping into a "pond" of the stuff as the bodies proceed and robots then paint the car.

Back in the 50's and 60's, they were hand sprayed. I have read and heard discussions between the various "experts" on 190SL's about what was painted, what colour, the what extent. Some of those "experts" are totally pedantic and as likely as not wrong. The general concensis is that the body colour on any individual car was sprayed as far under the wheel wells and onto the underbody as the knee bending of the individual painter allowed. Early morning cars probably got more body colour under the wheel wells and sills than late afternoon cars.

The factory in those days used a bituminous stone guard on the underneath. There was no body colour. I don't know whether you can even buy it anymore and the cars "I" have done, and this one will be the same, have been done with modern two pack epoxy stone guard after appropriate priming. I hope this answers your question. I have to go to work now but will post a few more pictures later. I need to save a couple for the Lode Star.
Art
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Ron B

Australia
11633 Posts

Posted - 03/18/2008 :  17:57:28  Show Profile  Visit Ron B's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Dan,the best substitute with factory appearance is pick up truck bed liner,such as rhino linings. The original is made by Wurth but can only be applied by their franchise holders who are few and far between. My 6.3 was painted about 9" under each side with the under coat left natural color in the tunnel etc .As Art says,it depended on the painter at the moment as to how far under they got with the gun.

...There are old cars,and then there are Classics..(Mercedes Benz Ad. 1999)
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Art Love

Australia
6239 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2008 :  01:45:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's an interesting detail difference between a late 6.3 and an early one that I was not aware of. I take lots of pictures and each one contains some detail or other that is often interesting for one reason or another.




Here's where the steering column comes through the firewall in #5810. The hole in the firewall isn't very big and there is little sign of the large alloy plate at the bottom of the column.




On the left of this picture is the same area in #1702. There is a large cut out in the firewall which is filled by the large alloy plate.
Art
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